[sanari]

Discuss.

[Requiem]

might as well do away with the euphemism.

donation with a perk is not a donation but a purchase that is ashamed to call itself a purchase.

[Zeigus]

Sounds like a good business model to me.

[Jeo]

Who would do such a thing anyway?

[Infares]

Requiem, on 13 February 2010 - 01:02 PM, said:

might as well do away with the euphemism.

donation with a perk is not a donation but a purchase that is ashamed to call itself a purchase.

LOL this!

I don't know if FFXIV will do this, I'd be a little worried if they felt they had to.

[Teflon Billy]

Jeo, on 13 February 2010 - 01:06 PM, said:

Who would do such a thing anyway?

People who wanted to get into the beta.

Alone, it would be a bit of an unscrupulous means of getting people to contribute financially to a site (unless the site is a part of bigger network that offers a lot for your donation/subscription fee), especially when no site could guarantee beta keys for everyone that donated.

Ten Ton Hammer has their premium membership program where subscribers have an increased chance of winning keys in contests (100 entries vs. the 1 for regular members), but even then there are no guarantees you will get a key for a specific game.

[Fauxbulous]

Zeigus, on 13 February 2010 - 01:03 PM, said:

Sounds like a good business model to me.

I agree with Zeigus. It doesn't sit right with me though, but that just says that I'm a horrible businessman more than anything.

[Requiem]

Fauxbulous, on 13 February 2010 - 01:29 PM, said:

I agree with Zeigus. It doesn't sit right with me though, but that just says that I'm a horrible businessman more than anything.

a horrible businessman is a virtuous man.

[Cerulean Shaman]

We will probably end up doing some extremely annoying contest or trick members with a seemingly innocent thread and then give every odd numbered poster a beta key or something, bwahahaha.

Meh, might even hand pick a few of the more active/dedicated members and toss them a bone. Hint, hint. >;P


Seriously though, I don't see this being too far away. Companies using a "guaranteed beta" premium system where you basically pay to enter beta. Even better since it's a donation and not a purchase technically you can keep it up after you're done passing keys out. It's a good business model as Zeigus said, that's for sure... Some companies already do it with preorders, like Mortal Online, meh.

This post has been edited by Cerulean Shaman: 13 February 2010 - 01:50 PM

[Jackel]

I can tell you right now, by the end of the night, this very topic is going to have some **** hit the fan.

[Mindel]

Not gonna happen. That's purchasing a beta key, with frosting on it.

[Fauxbulous]

I just don't see how it would work out WITHOUT a premium member system. It sort of seems like.. scalping tickets to me. I think that is why it doesn't sit well.

Plus, any idiot can buy donate for a key. Where some who are more valuable in terms of actually testing the game could lose out.

This post has been edited by Fauxbulous: 13 February 2010 - 01:48 PM

[Apricoth]

Well, I know some charities will push for donations by offering a chance to win a prize of sorts. That can be from something small to as big as a trip somewhere. But those who donate are put into a pool and from there names are drawn to determine the winners. There are other charities that will just offer a small item in exchange for a donation if it meets a certain dollar amount. In those instances you know for certain (well you hope you know for certain) where your money is being put and how it is being used.

Now I know where this is coming from and the topic that is driving this one. Personally I am a little disturbed by this entire situation. Number one some folks are under the impression that the donations were being asked for to help maintain the site where monthly costs and the like were concerned. Now that this is on the Curse Network, I would think donations are no longer needed since Curse funds and supports the sites they have deemed worthy to be part of that network.

Several people were approached to donate with an offer to have access to beta keys when they are made available. Some other folks were not offered this. There are 24 folks that have kindly parted with their funds to fuel Core. It behooves me to believe that SE would give that many keys to cover Core staff and those who have donated. I do know for a fact that fan sites that are recognized by game developers, in this case SE, a few beta keys are given out to the administrator(s) who in turn decides how to dole them out. I am having trouble stretching my imagination to incorporate the fact that there would be enough keys given out to cover both parties. Core staff is made up of the Administrators - there are 3, several Wiki staff, several translators, several moderators. As I mentioned before there are 24 people in the donation pool. Now, are we to believe that the Core staff would be looked over in favor of those who donated? I am thinking that is not going to happen.

A solution was presented with the idea of having the donating folks have premium access to Curse. Well, this is riddled with problems also. Even with premium access there is no guarentee there will be enough beta keys to compensate all the donating people. So those who donated are back at square one - holding the crappy end of the stick.

I believe that offering beta key access in exchange for a donation is not necessarily wrong by itself. But I do think there are ethical problems when the fan site is backed by Curse (who is supposed to fund and support the fan site) and donations are still being requested. On top of that, we really have no idea where those funds are going. The other problem is offering beta keys is not within someone's right to do so when the promise cannot be realistically filled.

The other problem that can come up, if we ignore the fact this site is supposed to be supported financially by Curse (please correct me if I am wrong - please please), if every member of Core donated, there is no way in Hades there would be a remote possibility that SE would give enough keys to cover everyone - staff and donating people alike. You can all fill in the blanks from here.

I have not donated anything here because my husband is not into FFXIV yet and he controls the finances. I am fine with that. Even if he allowed me to donate I would hesitate because I have some trust issues - all of which I have hinted at here and goes much deeper than this donating bit.

This is not a post to flame. This is a serious issue that needs to be addressed and rectified.

[Jei]

There are lots of dying children that will never live to see FFXIV go live. Give me your beta keyz and I will pass them to these children. As donations.

[Requiem]

Jei, on 13 February 2010 - 01:50 PM, said:

There are lots of dying children that will never live to see FFXIV go live. Give me your beta keyz and I will pass them to these children. As donations.

LOL don't forget to kidnap them from haiti!

[Jeo]

Requiem, on 13 February 2010 - 01:52 PM, said:

LOL don't forget to kidnap them from haiti!

Not cool :(

[Apricoth]

Lets try to stay on topic because this is serious. There's no room for trolling or kidding around. I love you guys and all, don't get me wrong. Anyone who has thought about donating, was approached to donate or has donated need to share their thoughts on the issue. That's just me. :P

Not saying Haiti children are not serious - it has no room for this topic.

This post has been edited by Apricoth: 13 February 2010 - 02:52 PM

[Jackel]

Lets try and keep on topic here, as it obviously seems pretty important to some people.

I won't lie, I was given a chance to donate, but beta key talks didn't come up until towards the end of the conversation. I guess my problem is, what is the difference between someone who donates and a curse premium member in regards to the Core site overall.

If someone donates $50 and does not get a key, as opposed to someone who pays a $3 a month membership and gets one, that's just luck of the draw to a point.

But does the person who donates $50 lose out to someone who donates $75? I guess it just has no structure, and seems more like a grab bag. I know that if I donated money with the "chance" to get a beta key, on a site sponsored by a company also offering a chance for beta key for being a paying member, and I still got passed over, I'd be pissed.

Long story short. Double U Tee Ef, mate?

[Evicerator]

I guess I'm a bit torn on this tbh.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with buying into Beta if you feel you won't get in by selection (hell some people are 0/10+ on Beta selection while some go 10/10).

The way I would look at it, is this: Some people are artistic, some are musically gifted, while others are gifted in other means with which they make money.

Sometimes contests give these keys away to someone for making an awesome drawing, or singing a beautiful song. It's a fun and free-spirited way for members to contribute to the site and get rewarded for it. Some members, however, aren't as fortunate to have those gifts or talents, but at the same time have a willingness or a genuine strive to win the prize at hand. Is it any less unfair to them that can't participate in said contest due to not being blessed with said gifts?

So why then does someone feel the need to gripe when a "monetary entrance fee" contest is brought up. Everyone has money, everyone has the oppurtunity to spend said money on w/e they prioritize to be most important. There is no "who is better than who?" going on, no bias, no judgment, nothing. Simple as "pay $XX and get a Beta key." So if you don't feel an early beta key is worth $XX to you, then don't buy it. Just like a contest that requires me to show off my non-existent artistic skills holds no chance of me winning, I simply do not enter the contest..

Now... as far as the part about masking the whole thing as a "donation" that part is a bit confusing and not something I agree with. At all. Sanari, you have a severe lack of subtlety and I, for one, believe you'd get a more open response if you'd simply say what you wanted to say rather than stir some drama pot. We ALL know where you're coming from with this... flame bait. We ALL KNOW what you're hoping to achieve.

Curse foots the hosting bill for this site, but we do not know if they foot the licensing fee for the forums ($125/6 months), the fees involved with each add-on to the forums (blogging software alone is $100, not to mention the downloads, gallery, etc), or if they pay for Steve and Aya to buy all of the lovely mags we love to have translated so we can read them. Do we know if Curse foots the bill for all conventions that we send people to?

So before we go pointing 'subtle' fingers in *any* direction let's state the facts and then get to the bottom of the problem.

[SquireMuldune3rd]

I've donated to the core before... before it was linked with curse. I want to say October/November time frame.

I'm trying to remember back to the conversation I had with Zyuu about donating. I remember it came from the irc and that it sounded pretty urgent. The donation wasn't much and I honestly can't remember if there was incentive of a beta key when it came out or not cause I could have cared less. I know the reality of getting my hands on a beta and it wouldn't be that easy. But I feel like that there was a thank you and if the core could "pay me back" they would, but nothing specific as a handout of any sort.

I enjoy being a part of this community and I want to see it do well. But as Apricoth has said, its tough to see where funds go to. I'm a pretty gullible person and I might be a bit too trusting, but I haven't seen anything from any of the staff to not be trusted. So I did what I could to help with what I felt was for a good cause.

I don't approve of people being offered something that is an impossible promise. Not just saying for a beta key, but any impossible promise. I don't approve of people taking advantage of those that are really wanting to help just to help support personal funds, and again, not saying its happening here but in any case period.

All in all, I'm happy to be a part of this community and I was happy to feel like I could do something to support it even with the small opportunities that I've had.