[Xombor]

I know this will spark some sort of flame with someone somewhere...
My brother and I weren't huge fans of TERA, but we tried it while waiting for Guild Wars 2 to come out. What we did like was dodging, I felt like I was actually trying to protect myself by moving out of the way.

Now I'm not saying we should have a dodge function exactly like GW2, but maybe some movement would help immerse us a bit more. And if we did have a dodge (move/button/command) I was thinking it would be fun to lose hate if you did.

My wife and I were chatting while on a little road trip yesterday and thought, what if the Paladin is standing there tanking like they do, and the White Mage is curing away, then out of nowhere the Warrior (or whatever DPS) does a couple skills and pulls hate? We were thinking if the Warrior was able to "dodge" in some capacity he could lower his enmity and give the Paladin a chance to regain control.

Anywho, no biggy if everyone hates this idea. I just felt I had to get it off my chest. lol

My wife bought me FFXI back in 2003 for xmas and her, myself, and my brother played XI until this year when we finally called it quits. My brother and I play GW2 off and on when we can. We're all excited for the renewed potential of 14 as we all loved the journey we had story and character-wise in FFXI, and are hoping to get an invite to the Alpha at some point.

[Jackel]

Hey Xombor,


XIV originally had taken player placement and movement into the game. The goal was to make combat much more strategy oriented so that it wasn't just whack-a-mole.

I'm not sure what ARR will bring to the table but I do know they're trying out systems so that certain mobs can be stunned or have other reactions based on destruction of body parts on them.

The example given was destroying a horn of a mob might stun it shortly. I know it's not the same as dodge but you can see how the concept would work in theory and how it could be applied. Maybe built in mechanics for certain fights such as safe circles or picking up an object in order to cause a different battle related result.

Only time will tell though, :)

[Mycroft]

To be fair, I could see (active) dodging as a tool for the complete opposite, the foe is enraged by being evaded and as such a lighter armoured off-tank, can take aggro for a while in case the main tank isn't doing too well. This is of course a scenario that few would wish for.

Anyway, the only possible way that I could see this being implemented, would be in the shape of an ability, or an ability mechanic. This could allow an Archer to put some extra distance between him - or herself and their target, in exchange for reduced something or another for a few seconds. Or as an ability mechanic, the Pugilist could have a side-step strike or something similar. Although, with the evasion as a statistic already in game, I doubt that it'll happen.

[Orophin]

The only thing that's currently in game that's like this is Dragoon's ability that let's them jump backwards, but it has a lengthy cooldown if I recall. However, it does nothing for them hate-wise and if they're still at the top of a monster's threat list, the mob is just going to run after them.

Numbered FF titles have never traditionally been action games so I doubt we're going to see much in terms of active defense commands like dodging. We DID have to manage blocking manually in the early phases of this game, but between losing an action and the old stamina system, it was deemed too cumbersome. Now like every other defense trait, it's something that procs on chance.

Yoshi-P has said the battle system will be quite different than we remember it, but I don't think defensive abilities such as dodge, parry and block will change much and remain passive.

[Xombor]

Jackel, on 27 November 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

Hey Xombor,


XIV originally had taken player placement and movement into the game. The goal was to make combat much more strategy oriented so that it wasn't just whack-a-mole.

I'm not sure what ARR will bring to the table but I do know they're trying out systems so that certain mobs can be stunned or have other reactions based on destruction of body parts on them.

The example given was destroying a horn of a mob might stun it shortly. I know it's not the same as dodge but you can see how the concept would work in theory and how it could be applied. Maybe built in mechanics for certain fights such as safe circles or picking up an object in order to cause a different battle related result.

Only time will tell though, :)

TBH, I had totally forgotten about player-placement in relation to an enemy from XI. It's been about 8 months since I played and even then the Aby parties don't really care about that stuff. Which means I probably haven't thought about that sort of play-style in about 2 years.

P.S. It's nice to see constructive discussion, I haven't been active on any forum in years. Mainly because I just can't read a lot of what goes on troll-wise.

[Ebyl]

Something like dodge has to be implemented as part of a larger combat mechanics concept. I wouldn't mind seeing classes with a dodge or evade type ability on a decent cooldown, but I have a feeling ARR's combat mechanics won't be built around the concept of a true, ongoing dodge like GW2.

I don't think anything you mentioned in your OP is out of the question, and we may see some of it, but it will probably take its own form. Nearly all MMO's have some way to manage hate generation and reduction. They also have ways to temporarily increase dodge, parry, and all that for certain classes. I'll think we'll still see stuff like that in some form with ARR. But I doubt we'll see a universal, frequently usable dodge ability like GW2 has. I'm guessing the combat mechanics will not be built around that idea.

This post has been edited by Ebyl: 27 November 2012 - 12:02 PM

[meathooks333]

I have to agree, with Ebyl. Dodging, at least as it is in a game like GW2 makes for extremely mobile combat. Now, I know that the game is getting a near complete overhaul, but I don't think it's going to go that far.

I do like the Dragoon ability that Orophin brought up, being something that could reduce enmity. A number of other classes could lend themselves to escape maneuvers within the context of their job as well. White Mages could have a quick teleport, Monks doing back handsprings, and whatever else.

[shojikun]

Well it could work for action-base MMOrpg, like Tera and Gw2.. FFXIV is a litle more traditional MMOrpg way... .

[HavokfireHero]

Ya, dodging is just part of a bigger picture when it comes to Gw2.
It's kinda melted in with the combat system they have. Dodging gives people the oppertnity to substitute toughness for player skill. FF14 is built on teamwork more than individual prowess. (Gw2 has some teamwork to it, but it's nothing like dedicated healing or tanking). Teamwork is fun and all, but not when you have to make a character and admit that without a healer you are worthless and without you the healer is worthless. (which makes Gw2 funny cuz if some guy falls dead, it's not the end of the world cuz we don't have set roles, if the Holy Trinity was legs on a stool, then Gw2 is a rubber ball.)

[Jackel]

HavokfireHero, on 29 November 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

if the Holy Trinity was legs on a stool, then Gw2 is a rubber ball.)

ha!