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Brian 
In Final Fantasy XIV alpha version (Disclaimer: things could change between now and release) it has been revealed that your character has a "physical" level as well as a class rank. Your class rank teaches you new skills and allows you to equip different weapons and armor's etc... But your physical level is where you apply attribute points. These little points (AP) are awarded to the player upon leveling up, and you can spend them on any stats you wish. Each stat you try to level costs a certain amount of AP, and thus dynamic level and character development are possible in Final Fantasy XIV.
The real question is since the game allows you to change your class at any time by just simply changing your weapon how will we be able to allocate stat points, gear sets, action menus, and interface. That is the real question I bring up today, and I'm going to offer my own theory on how it would work, or should work in my mind.
The simple solution:
Much like a macro system (a system that allows you to code several actions and stream them together) there will be a way that we can create "roles" or "jobs" if you will from the different classes. A player can then go in a setup a (we'll just call them roles not to add any confusion) role where they assign their AP, menu, weapons, armor, and whatever else they wish to recall at any point. Now once they have done this and saved their role, at any point they could bring up their menu and switch back to the role they saved. Doing so would return them all that they have setup previously and thus taken away from the manual process of switching everything out just to go from Gladiator to Conjure.
Now this of course couldn't account for new gear, or physical levels that you the player would gain, so you would have to "respec" those roles as you gained physical levels. But this would remove a lot of down time from the game when someone asks you to heal rather then tank.
This could also apply to different roles within the same class. You could spec to have your Gladiator be a tank, or then spec him to be more of a DD... And once you have created those roles you can switch between the two as the situation calls for it.
Now limits would need to be put in place, as in a set number of roles that the player could create. Ten roles, twenty roles... That isn't my call, but it would be interesting to see how the game were to be balanced between those. The beauty of this system is that players would need to level those classes to be effective. If you just focused on one or two classes your roles would be more focused, or if you just felt like running around and playing a bunch of different classes then you would be more diverse in your role creation.
One thing that this though process doesn't address is that of Crafting and crafters in the party and in the game. As I don't know if Stats will affect your crafting or gathering I don't know if this would be used, however if (let's say) you are a blacksmith and having a high fire elemental skill helps you forge then this system would be perfect for all classes both those of WAR and those of Skill.
The manual process:
Throwing out the idea of a macro/saved role/class system you then have the option to manually respec your class... The question is should this be at anytime? Or should you have to go to a NPC (Non-player character) in town and spend some money to change your stats around. This same process could be applied to the simple solution as well, however you would pay to respec your saved roles that you have created and wouldn't have to pay each time you switch between the two. Only thing would be you have to create your roles at the NPC and couldn't change them out in the field. This all seems to be too convoluted and not friendly enough to new and casual players. So call it what you wish...
These of course are just my theories on the topic; I would love to hear your own regarding how we will be able to change our stats when switching between classes. So post them here if you got any.
Thanks for reading, will catch you next time. :)
The real question is since the game allows you to change your class at any time by just simply changing your weapon how will we be able to allocate stat points, gear sets, action menus, and interface. That is the real question I bring up today, and I'm going to offer my own theory on how it would work, or should work in my mind.
The simple solution:
Much like a macro system (a system that allows you to code several actions and stream them together) there will be a way that we can create "roles" or "jobs" if you will from the different classes. A player can then go in a setup a (we'll just call them roles not to add any confusion) role where they assign their AP, menu, weapons, armor, and whatever else they wish to recall at any point. Now once they have done this and saved their role, at any point they could bring up their menu and switch back to the role they saved. Doing so would return them all that they have setup previously and thus taken away from the manual process of switching everything out just to go from Gladiator to Conjure.
Now this of course couldn't account for new gear, or physical levels that you the player would gain, so you would have to "respec" those roles as you gained physical levels. But this would remove a lot of down time from the game when someone asks you to heal rather then tank.
This could also apply to different roles within the same class. You could spec to have your Gladiator be a tank, or then spec him to be more of a DD... And once you have created those roles you can switch between the two as the situation calls for it.
Now limits would need to be put in place, as in a set number of roles that the player could create. Ten roles, twenty roles... That isn't my call, but it would be interesting to see how the game were to be balanced between those. The beauty of this system is that players would need to level those classes to be effective. If you just focused on one or two classes your roles would be more focused, or if you just felt like running around and playing a bunch of different classes then you would be more diverse in your role creation.
One thing that this though process doesn't address is that of Crafting and crafters in the party and in the game. As I don't know if Stats will affect your crafting or gathering I don't know if this would be used, however if (let's say) you are a blacksmith and having a high fire elemental skill helps you forge then this system would be perfect for all classes both those of WAR and those of Skill.
The manual process:
Throwing out the idea of a macro/saved role/class system you then have the option to manually respec your class... The question is should this be at anytime? Or should you have to go to a NPC (Non-player character) in town and spend some money to change your stats around. This same process could be applied to the simple solution as well, however you would pay to respec your saved roles that you have created and wouldn't have to pay each time you switch between the two. Only thing would be you have to create your roles at the NPC and couldn't change them out in the field. This all seems to be too convoluted and not friendly enough to new and casual players. So call it what you wish...
These of course are just my theories on the topic; I would love to hear your own regarding how we will be able to change our stats when switching between classes. So post them here if you got any.
Thanks for reading, will catch you next time. :)
Categories: FFXIV
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Kibawolf9
07 May 2010 - 04:45 PM
I don't think 'respecing' should be simple or quick as it makes your decisions have less of an impact on your character. I do believe you should be able to change your physical stats, but possibly through a somewhat lengthy guildleve/quest similar to the Matt fight in XI, but instead of fighting someone else maybe you fight a mirror image of yourself.
As to physical stats such as low int, but high str, I believe it should be similiar to specing white mage on a warrior. It works, but its not nearly as effective as if it was your main job.
Otherwise roles in XIV will be similar in WoW in which they stop mattering (duel spec) what choices anyone makes.
As to physical stats such as low int, but high str, I believe it should be similiar to specing white mage on a warrior. It works, but its not nearly as effective as if it was your main job.
Otherwise roles in XIV will be similar in WoW in which they stop mattering (duel spec) what choices anyone makes.
Brian
08 May 2010 - 06:58 AM
Good post, but yet I have to disagree, unless they allow you the ability to specialize within a class and if so, then I think it should be quest/gil based. Now... I could also agree if they let us have several characters per account without charging us for them. (In FFXI you had to pay $1 a month per extra character)
In Final Fantasy XI you had one character who could changes jobs and with it your level was tied into that job. With XIV you can change your class at anytime, but if the two things I said above aren't true, then really what's the point of changing classes at anytime, if players are just going to create new characters to play as different jobs.
While your thoughts are good, I have to disagree. If they allow us to change our class but then not give us the ability to be any good at it, then what's the point.
What makes the classes not "all the same" as you give WOW as the example is that players will still need to skill up those classes on their own. They will also need to acquire the gear they need since they all start at level 1 you'll have to spend time getting their skill up.
Where this game will truly shine is that since we can equip skills from other classes we will end up creating truly unique roles which will lead to more dynamic leveling and playing. While it's easy to think of how it is in WOW, you have to remember that you picked as class and that was it. And to respec changed how you played that class. In XIV you can change your class on the fly, so it a way it's already respecing, and Square has said that they are working on the way to make it so you can update your stats to your physical level. How they do it, no one knows, only time will tell. :)
In Final Fantasy XI you had one character who could changes jobs and with it your level was tied into that job. With XIV you can change your class at anytime, but if the two things I said above aren't true, then really what's the point of changing classes at anytime, if players are just going to create new characters to play as different jobs.
While your thoughts are good, I have to disagree. If they allow us to change our class but then not give us the ability to be any good at it, then what's the point.
What makes the classes not "all the same" as you give WOW as the example is that players will still need to skill up those classes on their own. They will also need to acquire the gear they need since they all start at level 1 you'll have to spend time getting their skill up.
Where this game will truly shine is that since we can equip skills from other classes we will end up creating truly unique roles which will lead to more dynamic leveling and playing. While it's easy to think of how it is in WOW, you have to remember that you picked as class and that was it. And to respec changed how you played that class. In XIV you can change your class on the fly, so it a way it's already respecing, and Square has said that they are working on the way to make it so you can update your stats to your physical level. How they do it, no one knows, only time will tell. :)
Kibawolf9
08 May 2010 - 07:57 AM
Brian, on 08 May 2010 - 07:58 AM, said:
If they allow us to change our class but then not give us the ability to be any good at it, then what's the point.
Where this game will truly shine is that since we can equip skills from other classes we will end up creating truly unique roles which will lead to more dynamic leveling and playing.
Where this game will truly shine is that since we can equip skills from other classes we will end up creating truly unique roles which will lead to more dynamic leveling and playing.
While I agree with you in that if they give us the ability to change, but be ineffective at it then the idea of changing is pointless.
However, lets say someone goes from physical level 1-50 as only a pugilist, and increase they're physical stats appropriately, strength, agility, dexterity (this is only speculation based on how the class is currently described) and then decides to skill up and add in some thaumaturge abilities to their repertoire. Now, the problem with this lies in how the abilities are handled. If thaumaturge abilities use different stats as modifiers those abilities probably are not nearly as good a choice to supplement pugilist with as say, archer or marauder. Because they are currently specialized as a 'melee' role they would be required to respec appropriately if they wanted to add in thaumaturge abilities by decreasing some of their melee stats and increases stats such as intelligence.
Now, this is where the problem lies. Are we truly going to be able to create unique and dynamic classes? Or are we still going to all be forced into specializing our abilities and stats?
Perhaps SE may have abilities work completely differently for a 'melee' build or a 'caster' build. Maybe abilities will work differently or use a different stat as a modifier based on whichever stats are higher.
P.S.
This probably ended up quite off-topic...
Tramell
08 May 2010 - 10:05 PM
I mentioned something like this on the FFXIV suggestion forum but it was about customized settings in terms of UIs and Filters for class changing on the fly. You expanded upon the idea. They have do something about that, if you can change jobs on the field, they have to implement a system or process where you can make that quick and easy. I like your idea of respec, as long as you mentioned, they put a limit on how many roles you can do. By imposing a limit you can still get plenty of diversity from yourself and others.
On another can of worms this entry brings up is the issue not with your post but more about information we don't know in terms of how your characters stats influence the skills and abilities. I'm mainly getting at the idea of being a melee with some sort of magic(the hybrid. If you make a Dark Monk type character and you give him some debuffs/enfeebs can they be effective as the main class you go them from, if not, can they be feasible to even try to have them. Such as in FFXI, you can go WAR/BLM and lets say use the spell drain and get something(number from my butt)50 HP at 75, where as the BLM will drain for 350+. This right here can kill the whole idea of making your character unique. If they plan on letting people get down and really diversify there character this is something that needs to be addressed. Can you downsize a skill or ability not being used on the primary role can it still be effective and have a impact. Can you get that happy medium and truly make your dream character and it just works.
On another can of worms this entry brings up is the issue not with your post but more about information we don't know in terms of how your characters stats influence the skills and abilities. I'm mainly getting at the idea of being a melee with some sort of magic(the hybrid. If you make a Dark Monk type character and you give him some debuffs/enfeebs can they be effective as the main class you go them from, if not, can they be feasible to even try to have them. Such as in FFXI, you can go WAR/BLM and lets say use the spell drain and get something(number from my butt)50 HP at 75, where as the BLM will drain for 350+. This right here can kill the whole idea of making your character unique. If they plan on letting people get down and really diversify there character this is something that needs to be addressed. Can you downsize a skill or ability not being used on the primary role can it still be effective and have a impact. Can you get that happy medium and truly make your dream character and it just works.
Grodan16
09 May 2010 - 10:37 AM
I will maybe end up doin one character of war and one of magic, so that I won't have to respec all the time. Not sure though.
Brian
09 May 2010 - 02:09 PM
Kibawolf9, on 08 May 2010 - 07:57 AM, said:
However, lets say someone goes from physical level 1-50 as only a pugilist, and increase they're physical stats appropriately, strength, agility, dexterity (this is only speculation based on how the class is currently described) and then decides to skill up and add in some thaumaturge abilities to their repertoire. Now, the problem with this lies in how the abilities are handled. If thaumaturge abilities use different stats as modifiers those abilities probably are not nearly as good a choice to supplement pugilist with as say, archer or marauder. Because they are currently specialized as a 'melee' role they would be required to respec appropriately if they wanted to add in thaumaturge abilities by decreasing some of their melee stats and increases stats such as intelligence.
Now, this is where the problem lies. Are we truly going to be able to create unique and dynamic classes? Or are we still going to all be forced into specializing our abilities and stats?
Perhaps SE may have abilities work completely differently for a 'melee' build or a 'caster' build. Maybe abilities will work differently or use a different stat as a modifier based on whichever stats are higher.
P.S.
This probably ended up quite off-topic...
Now, this is where the problem lies. Are we truly going to be able to create unique and dynamic classes? Or are we still going to all be forced into specializing our abilities and stats?
Perhaps SE may have abilities work completely differently for a 'melee' build or a 'caster' build. Maybe abilities will work differently or use a different stat as a modifier based on whichever stats are higher.
P.S.
This probably ended up quite off-topic...
You make some very good points, and really there won't or can't be any resolution until more is known.
I think that different stats will play as modifiers to the different classes and skills and that's why if a character goes to level 50 on their physical level but then changes classes to a class that doesn't use those same stats as positive influences I would think that that would be broken or unfair for a class that uses different stats... and thus the ability to change their stats to focus on the class they are currently using.
The question for me then comes up thinking about balance, is say you level your physical level to 50 and then change to a class skill rank of 1. Are your stats capped for that class at that level? Or are they open for you to use all your HP etc on your current class... I think there would have to be a cap of some kind but once again that has yet to be seen. :)
Brian
10 May 2010 - 07:01 AM
Tramell, on 08 May 2010 - 10:05 PM, said:
On another can of worms this entry brings up is the issue not with your post but more about information we don't know in terms of how your characters stats influence the skills and abilities. I'm mainly getting at the idea of being a melee with some sort of magic(the hybrid. If you make a Dark Monk type character and you give him some debuffs/enfeebs can they be effective as the main class you go them from, if not, can they be feasible to even try to have them. Such as in FFXI, you can go WAR/BLM and lets say use the spell drain and get something(number from my butt)50 HP at 75, where as the BLM will drain for 350+. This right here can kill the whole idea of making your character unique. If they plan on letting people get down and really diversify there character this is something that needs to be addressed. Can you downsize a skill or ability not being used on the primary role can it still be effective and have a impact. Can you get that happy medium and truly make your dream character and it just works.
All very good thoughts. And your right, it is a can of worms. I guess time will tell. I just hope it tells sooner rather then later.
The Robotic Robot
12 May 2010 - 09:54 AM
Games like MAG have physical levels which give you skill points that unlock new gear and abilities. In addition to earning exp, you earn "respec" points, which allow you to respec your character whenever you want, but at the expense of some of your points. This way, you're never tied to one kind of build, but you have to be selective of when you reallocate points.
Hopefully in a more... permanent game like FFXIV, they will find a way for every class to function adequately without needing to be fully respec'd every time you change it up. It would defeat the purpose of on-the-fly class changing if you have to go to an NPC or change your stats manually.
I think stat obsession might kill us if we rely too heavily on it, but I don't know how many people agree with me on that much.
Hopefully in a more... permanent game like FFXIV, they will find a way for every class to function adequately without needing to be fully respec'd every time you change it up. It would defeat the purpose of on-the-fly class changing if you have to go to an NPC or change your stats manually.
I think stat obsession might kill us if we rely too heavily on it, but I don't know how many people agree with me on that much.
djhyperio
26 May 2010 - 12:10 AM
When I heard about how each weapon modifies the way a player develops, I automatically thought of Elder Scrolls of Oblivion. Where the weapon determines how you develop.
A large sword that doesnt let you hold a shield, will also slow you down, and make you less agile. So in turn, if you only focus on fighting, then you only increase your fighting skills. But if you run and jump with this sword, you'll increase your evasion skills. Therefore, the weapon controls to a degree how your strength and attributes behave. If you encourage them, you become stronger. But if you decide to focus on your weaknesses with said weapon, you can improve them. Hence, becoming a well-rounded fighter.
So, apply it to sword-shield or axe-shield; Scythe or Pole; wand or staff, long sword or big axe, etc etc etc. All weps will control how you develop.
Including magic. In FFXI, whm did better with wands, while blm did better with a staff. So, this could make your magic skills develop differently.
In Oblivion, even the armor you used developed the character; since you had light and heavy armor. So did your blacksmithing skills. If you carried hammers you could repair your armor, and the skill increased.
In my opinion, FFXIV might try and do something more like Oblivion, where you increase the skills you use the most. But each weapon (armor, etc) makes you level something more or less efficiently than other weps.
So, the re-stat thing is plain silly, if u think about re-stating a lvl 75 piece by piece...I think that it'll all depend on how good you are at using all the skills and not focusing on your stronger skills.
For example, i might start off as a gladiator to increase strength. Then a couple of levels higher, I could change to a mage and increase my magic skills.
It would be easier to develop that mage, because of the strenght and defense boost that i got when I leveled up as a gladiator (you get rid of jobs here). I could then follow the steps of a RDM (which I plan to do) and be active physically and magic-wise.
Cheers,
Dj
A large sword that doesnt let you hold a shield, will also slow you down, and make you less agile. So in turn, if you only focus on fighting, then you only increase your fighting skills. But if you run and jump with this sword, you'll increase your evasion skills. Therefore, the weapon controls to a degree how your strength and attributes behave. If you encourage them, you become stronger. But if you decide to focus on your weaknesses with said weapon, you can improve them. Hence, becoming a well-rounded fighter.
So, apply it to sword-shield or axe-shield; Scythe or Pole; wand or staff, long sword or big axe, etc etc etc. All weps will control how you develop.
Including magic. In FFXI, whm did better with wands, while blm did better with a staff. So, this could make your magic skills develop differently.
In Oblivion, even the armor you used developed the character; since you had light and heavy armor. So did your blacksmithing skills. If you carried hammers you could repair your armor, and the skill increased.
In my opinion, FFXIV might try and do something more like Oblivion, where you increase the skills you use the most. But each weapon (armor, etc) makes you level something more or less efficiently than other weps.
So, the re-stat thing is plain silly, if u think about re-stating a lvl 75 piece by piece...I think that it'll all depend on how good you are at using all the skills and not focusing on your stronger skills.
For example, i might start off as a gladiator to increase strength. Then a couple of levels higher, I could change to a mage and increase my magic skills.
It would be easier to develop that mage, because of the strenght and defense boost that i got when I leveled up as a gladiator (you get rid of jobs here). I could then follow the steps of a RDM (which I plan to do) and be active physically and magic-wise.
Cheers,
Dj
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